DEBATE: Should Taking Someone’s Last Name Be a Deal Breaker?
July 5, 2009 by Adam and Sital
Filed under Debates, Featured
Dan, a Boston-born patent attorney in his late 20’s and Susan, a fashion designer in her mid-30’s who owns her own company, have decided to get married after a passionate 6 months of dating. When they subject of Susan taking Dan’s last name came up, Dan insisted on it. Susan refused, but Dan has stated that it is something really important to him and it has become a deal breaker in the relationship.
Should Susan take his last name to save the relationship?
Absolutely not. We’re not living in the 1700s any more girls. This is an ancient custom that was a display of property rights. You took his last name, because you were his property, like his prized beagle or I shudder to say it, but his slaves. Clearly that’s not true today. Marriage is about partnership, not ownership.
If your last name is awful (i.e. your last name is Shmuckle, Hoser, Wanker or Gaye -- yes, I actually had a friend who's last name was Gaye, as in Marvin Gaye. He was, in fact, gay, so it's a point of pride for him.) or you don’t feel personally attached to your last name, then feel free to change it. I won’t judge you for it because it’s a personal choice, not one to be made or dictated by someone else.
Personally, my last name is mine, it’s part of who I am, people identify me with it and I’m never going to change it. I don’t want to hyphenate it either – it’s confusing. I also think it’s disrespectful to my parents. My father only has daughters, no son to carry on the name, so I’m proud to have my last name attached to my accomplishments. That being said, I do feel that my children should have their father’s name. Hyphenating their names creates a really long name and getting through pre-school without a peeing accident is hard enough. Who needs the pressure of spelling a really long name? Then there’s the question of what they will name their own children. Do you tack on another name, so a Smith-Jones becomes a Smith-Jones-Peters?
If it’s a deal-breaker for Dan, then he should ask himself why he wouldn’t want to take Susan's last name as his own. Why is his last name so important and personal to him?
I'm not a big one for traditional gender roles. Women are equal if not better than Men in many ways (though typically not Bench Press <flex>), and I am a firm believer that, especially in the workplace, there is no room for stereotyping or pigeonholing. Zip. Zero. Don't do it, can't tolerate it.
Buuuuuuuuut.....
There are some things the should remain sacred. Screech should always remain nerdy, Dan Marino should always remain the greatest Dolphin ever, and a woman should always take a man's last name.
When you get married you form one unit, a family. You are together, forever. Spiritually, financially, and legally. By taking your man's last name you are becoming one with him in all of these ways. Its a symbol of your commitment to him, one that the woman has traditionally taken on and I see no reason to deviate from whats worked well so far. Oh and next time you ladies think symbols and tradition no longer play a role in marriage take a nice hard look at that rock on your finger.
Back to Dan and Susan: Unless this is some dramatic deal breaker for her like it is for Dan, she should take the last name. She can continue to be know professionally as something else - if her clothing design is "Susan Smith's Skanky Skiwear" then I see no reason to break up a perfectly good alliteration for her husband. But legally, out of respect for the family she is trying to build, she should embrace Dan's last name.
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I completely agree with Sital on this one. A woman is not a man’s property and should not feel obligated to take his name after marriage. Especially in these days, many women have established a career for themselves by the time they are married. They are known in their professional world (in their world period) by their given name, so why should they have to re-establish themselves with a new name?
Plus, like Sital, I identify with my name, I like my name, and I will never change it…again. Yes, I married when I was 21 and I foolishly changed my name. I was so young that I didn’t even give it any thought, I just did it. But I never changed my bank account or one of my credit cards. I guess even at my young age, I never completely gave up my name in my mind.
I am currently engaged and when I marry I will keep my name. And like Sital, I won’t confuse everyone and hyphenate. My fiance is fine with this and has even said he thinks I should. He also said he doesn’t see why the man can’t change his name if he thinks the husband and wife should have the same name! Yeah Bill!
No wonder I love this man.
One final note, Adam commented that the tradition of the woman taking the man’s name has worked well for years, but that is according to and for whom….the women or the men?
Tracie – welcome to the site! Now let me tell you why you’re wrong
I am certainly not arguing that a woman is a man’s “property”. But don’t you think that when two people get married they should form one family unit? I’m arguing that there is something very symbolic about sharing a last name. How else will people know how to address you on Christmas cards and junk mail
? “Dear Smith and Jones Family,”?
Plus what about the kids (or the dogs in the case of those that won’t have kids)? How will you handle that? Are you going to let little Johnny go to school with no association to one part of his family? As if dealing with puberty isn’t hard enough!
The only way to really do that is for one person to take the others last name.
Well Adam, according to you, someone just has to take someone’s last name, so why can’t the guy take the girls last name?
)
(i dont necessarily agree with that, i’m just sayin
This woman should absolutely take on the man’s last name. Not only will it be confusing to people why she is married but her “husband” has a different last name, what are their future children to think? And what last name will children take with them?
It has nothing to do with “owning” another, or enslaving them. Any attempt to claim this is absolute sexism.
A marriage is a union of 2 lives into a family. Both parties should absolutely carry the same last name. It shows unison and identifies a family.
This is an absolute deal breaker for me. If the woman I marry is not willing to take my last name as her own, there will be no wedding.
I’ll pose the same question posed to Adam….if the argument is just that the family unit should have the same last name, why can’t the guy take the girl’s last name?
Well, I’d like to ask you why would the guy take on the girl’s last name? My personal view is that a woman should take on a man’s last name. My main reason: tradition and beliefs. It is a tradition practiced around the world. Currently, only 7 US states allow men to change their last name without going through the entire legal name change process. It wasn’t until the 1970’s that feminist groups began questioning the practice of a woman taking on a man’s name.
This question also stems to gender roles and beliefs on family. My belief is that gender is an essential characteristic of individuals identity and purpose. It is my belief that fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners.
While both are equal partners, both have responsibilities and roles within the family unit that support and create an environment for the raising of posterity.
With this being said, I fully support a woman’s choice to pursue a career, but do not see it as a requirement. I hope that when I get married, my wife will have the option to stay home and raise children if she so chooses.
Some argue in the case of women changing their last name is a brand identity associated with the last name of authors, actresses, and otherwise. In this case, I think legally the woman should still change her name without hyphenation. However, to preserve brand identity, a hyphenation can be used.
Hey Ben! Welcome to debate!
As you can probably guess Misty, I agree with Ben. I totally support a woman’s ability to be equal from a career, rights, and other basic standpoints.
But that does not mean that there shouldn’t be gender roles in a male/female relationship. Whats surprising is that I think most women would agree with us as well – women want men to be MEN. They want us to be strong & confident. That’s what they find attractive.
So if we:
1. Agree on that there needs to be a shared last name for family reasons, and
2. Women want confident strong men – like those that are strong members of a family,
then it needs to be the mans last name because that is what in reality what most woman would find attractive and fulfilling.
Tracie, you make many excellent points. Yes, who has it worked for?
Ben I am sorry but saying that it is “sexism” for a woman to feel that taking a man’s last name feels like an issue of domination or ownership is completely misusing the word sexism and stretching it to meaninglessness.
A rape is sexist. My parents investing in my brothers hobbies and activities and not their daughters is sexist. This? No way.
The fact is, yes it is about ownership. It is based on the patriarchal idea that a woman belongs to her father and then her husband and we are thankfully breaking through that outdated belief. A woman belongs to herself. It is not practiced all over the world, either. In Greece, a culture from which our civilization grew, a woman retains her surname. It isn’t confusing to them. And to me, it was always confusing trying to figure out how this relative was related to who and why. You are simply taking your perspective as “reality.” When in fact, it is just your point of reference that makes you think it is confusing.
Anyway confusion can be cleared up simply by telling someone you retained your maiden-name. Isn’t that a funny expression. Am I writing that wrong?
In our culture women most certainly are put in circumstances where they lose their identity and men don’t realize it. Who ever said they are used to their name and will not change it, said it right. You are a man and have never thought of taking another person’s last name but it certainly doesn’t necessarily feel natural, warm and fuzzy. The children will not be confused. I don’t agree.
Adam R-Z not only are you speaking on behalf of all women which is completely inappropriate, you are speaking on behalf of women concerning their desires and what they find attractive. Unless you have done a few rigid sociological and scientific studies to back up what you are saying, you are really just giving your opinion and trying to pass it off as fact.
What do you mean by a MAN? Strong and confident? That is a very vague description. No, it shouldn’t be a man’s last name. How do you know all women feel this way? Who are you to speak on behalf of all women? Women come in all different ways and wants, no two women are the same. You have no idea what all women want. That is not a sound argument at all.
I am not a gender skeptic (believing all gender is a social construct.) Neither do I believe that the “gender” norms we have now and have had in the past are completely natural. There is a great book about this called Earth Muse. If you care to turn your opinion into an educated point of view. Speaking on behalf of all women? Writing a response that doesn’t make much sense unless we assume to understand what you mean by filling in many blanks. Don’t do that.
I am interested to see if you can even put any words to what you just said?
What family reasons would that be?
How do you justify stating “In reality that is what all women want.” How do you judge what is “reality”?
Can you please give us some more to this?